Man, thats one thing I never understood, the Trinity.

Winikpedia and all that I've read a bit, but anyone care to explain to me? I do have some general knowalge and do understand most things about the Christain Faith, just not this :no:

One God three persons, they say. That always confused me too.
One of the things that the Church chalks up in the "mystery" category.

Even the Church can't tell you about the nature of the trinity. They can only understand the trinity in terms of what it is not--hence the negative theology. God is NOT like a three-headed hydra, NOT like a clover, NOT like a person with multiple personality disorder. But what it IS it? Mystery...

I understand it best as the three ways in which we encounter the divine. We encounter the divine in three ways: in creation (The Father), in the human experience (The Son), and in the fabric and flow of being itself (The Holy Spirit). Who knows. Maybe this makes me a heretic.

I'm undecided as to the Trinity, myself. It's not completely clear to me that this concept is Biblical. I do believe that Jesus is God -- that is clearly Biblical, I think. That's a great mystery itself, which I have difficulty putting into words.

I believe there is a biblical basis for the trinity, which I'll briefly expound on here, if anyone has questions pm me and I'll try and further clarify (though as a caveat be patient, I don't have a Bible at work and I tend to post here during my lunch hour, I will try and get back to you within a week but can't promise that, not if you want an adequate response...)

Firstly, if we examine the Hebrew in which Genesis (and even English translations of it keep this sense) God talks about God in the plural. US is used numerous times as well as WE while God is creating the world (hence the tenant that God the Creator and God the Word and God the Spirit existed at all times, Jesus is the Word made flesh, so if you don't like thinking Jesus existed WAY THE HECK back at the beginning of time, think of it this way, the word existed back then, Jesus as the word made flesh didn't exist until Mary gave birth to him.)

Now that can be explained away with God the Creator being, and Jesus the son of God being as well, and doesn't necessarily explain the Spirit.

Jesus a few times talks about how after he is gone, God will send down his Holy Spirt to the apostles. The Holy Spirt comes from God and has a connection to God, Jesus, according to John the Baptist, came to Baptize in the Spirit...

there's a connection to them both via the spirit. Also, in the Nicene creed the spirit "proceeds from the father and the son and with the father and the son is worshiped and glorified" this si more for Lutherans and Episcopaleans and Catholics, I'm not sure if other denominations pray the Nicean creed. Though in the words of a Jesuit priest "pity the holy spirit, the poor forgotten step child of the trinity." It's the aspect of the divine that is most misunderstood (hell I'm not even sure I can adequately explain it), frequently disregarded, but it's necessary for a belief in the trinity.

I'm going ot have to stop there for now. But it is, a mystery, something that has to be taken on faith since it can not be proved, nor disproved, merely "justified" ;)

But the actual "Trinity" the word, is never mentioned as far as I can tell. While the idea might be there, if rather disjointed and scattered throughout the bible, the actual "Trinity" itself is still rather "out there" as far as I'm concerned.

True, I don't deny that as a concept the trinity is pretty bloody mind blowing. It's one of the "mysteries of faith."

And yes the word "trinity" is not in the Bible, rather it's the term ancient church teachers and theologians gave to the concept they found in the Bible.

Not only can the idea be teased out of certain places in the Bible, but I recall reading somewhere that the number 3 has significance across cultures in human history. It's imprinted in the "collective unconscious," as Jung would have it.

I wish I could cite an in-depth source, but off the top of my head I can think of things like the triangle in human symbolic history (the star of David, the pyramids)or the ancient Chinese "trigram" of the I-Ching.

This idea of God as "three" then, has basis not only in a particular scriptural interpretation, but also in the history of humankind.

Now that that is "cleared up" what are other mysterys of the faith, besides the Trinity and all that?

The Trinity, as I understand it, is something that the Catholic church came up with because certain interpretations were clarified by the existence of such a concept.

Just another way to view the Bible, I would suppose, certainly nothing that is definate.

Interesting fact about the Trinity: When the Spanish came to Mexico and other central American countries and forced the labor from the Native Americans, they told them the concept of the trinity as best it can be explained to someone who has no knowalge of it at all.

The Natives made statues with three heads as representations of the Trinity.

I can't remember from what book this is from but I believe Jesus says something along the lines of 'You call me good? Only god is good.' Now why would he say something like that?



EDIT:

Found it. Luke 18:18,19

Well I suppose backers of trinitarian theology would say that the passage is evidence that God is at least 2 persons (God and Jesus).

Matt.28
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Pretty clear.

Yes, there are three entities, but look for a passage of the bible that says Trinity in it.

Well find a passage in the Bible that says "Christianity."

Father, son and Holy Ghost….
Tough to answer the common Muslim critique: “Christianity is polytheism.”

Interesting to learn about the Native Americans; seems to support the Muslim critique.

Acts 11

25Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Yes it says Christians. It doesn't say "Christianity."

The point was this: that just because something isn't explicitly stated in the Bible doesn't disqualify it from being part of Christian belief.

This is true. But the term Christian is still identified in The Bible, whereas the Trinity is not nearly as explicit.

To tell you the truth I never really understood the holy trinity. It just doesn't seem well, necessary in an omnipotent being.

God being all powerful wouldn't be human so how could he go through what we do? Jesus was human and divine, God is divine. After Jesus asended to heaven, He sent his Holy Spirit to abide with us.


The "Shield of the Trinity" or "Scutum Fidei"
diagram of traditional Western Christian symbolism.

Topic split and merged.

Or if you would agree that ancient texts had different meanings in context when they were first drafted, all could be explained.

The best way to understand it is to look at it as:
One spirit
Three people
(not literally, just so you get a mental picture)


There's only one God though, not three.

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There are also seven spirits of God.
Probably something not many of you have heard about.

The idea of three is immensely prevalent in other cultures.
In Hinduism, the Trinity:
Vishnu, the Sustainer
Brahma, the Creator
Shiva, the Destroyer.

The Trinity shows up in pop culture also.

-The Legend of Zelda-
//video game

-The Matrix-
//movie

Almost anything out of a philosophy 101 class comes up in Pop culture ;)

I don't believe in the trinity.

I wouldn't expect Christian to be mentioned in the Bible. Being a believer in the Bible doesn't make you a Christian.

definition of Christian from http://dictionary.com

So basically being in a religion revolved around Jesus Christ's teachings.

I revolve my beliefs around God's teachings, such as the commandments.

So I wouldn't expect God to say "Christian", nor the Bible to say it, because there are several contradictions in the Bible that can be used to debate whether Jesus was meant to be worshipped or not.

/////////////////////////////////////

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You can call yourself anything, that doesn't make it true.

The best explaination I've heard for the trinity is that of a book.

The father is the book itself.
The son is the words in the book.
The holy spirit is the message the book conveys.


All that aside I don't buy into the nicene creed. It was a political tool used to get rid of other ideologies.

I see it as God's three relationships with man

The father - Above everything looking in on man
The son - Sort of the messenger, giving man god's word
The holy spirit - Everwhere, alongside everything.

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned (it's a little late here, so I don't want to read through 3 pages), but: the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible for one major reason: Humans invented the idea, not God. AFTER Jesus's death and supposed "ascension", everyone just accepted that Jesus was God. Then, someone (I can't remember the name right now but if anyone really wants to know, I can look it up) posed this problem: How can Jesus be God if he's God's son?

Needless to say, he was killed for heresy, but then the church had a hard time covering it up. They needed a way to explain that without going against Christian doctrine, so they came up with the idea of the Holy Trinity, saying that God was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three entities of the same God at the same time.

It's not God's or Jesus's explanation, it's the Christian church's... humanity's explanation.

-IMP ;) :)